Taalportaal - the digital language portal

Dutch
Frisian
Saterfrisian
Afrikaans

Show all

Beide both

quickinfo

The quantifier beide both is marginally able to support noun ellipsis. Instead, a quantifier float structure is required.

Like alle all, the quantifier beide both is marginally able to carry noun ellipsis in subject and object position:

?Beide / beiden seagen der goed út

both looked there good out

Both looked well

?Ik ha beide / beiden sjoen

I have both seen

I've seen both

?Der wurdt oer beide / beiden praat

there is about both talked

Both are being talked about

Instead, it requires a quantifier float structure, that is, a structure in which the quantifier appears as an adverb accompanying a pronoun:

Se seagen der beiden / beide goed út

they looked there both good out

Both looked well

Ik ha se beide / beiden sjoen

I have them both seen

I've seen them both

Der wurdt oer har beiden praat

there is about them both talked

There is talk about both of them

*Der wurdt oer har beide praat

there is about them both talked

Both of them are being talked about

The form beiden both occurs proportionately, though not absolutely, more often with a human antecedent than the form beide both. In the position of prepositional complement, however, it seems that a human interpretation for beiden both is obligatory; so (d) above cannot refer to two inanimate subjects which are being talked about. This is independent of the presence of the quantifier: if only the pronoun har her, them is present, the judgments are the same. The object pronoun har her, them has a case-neutral clitic form se her, them. Both forms may show up as prepositional complement, but only har her, them may be accompanied by a floating quantifier:

Der wurdt oer har praat

there is about them talked

They are being talked about

Der wurdt oer se praat

there is about them talked

They are being talked about

*Der wurdt oer se beiden / beide praat

there is about them both talked

Both of them are being talked about

Analogous to the form allegearre all, the form beidegearre both also exists. Unlike allegearre all, beidegearre both is almost obsolete. It occurs 11 times in the Frisian Language Corpus (25 million words). Some examples are provided below:

Hwat nijs yn beidegearre har libben

something new in both their life

Something new in both their lives

Beidegearre hienen se de prakkesaesjes by itselde

both had they the thoughts on the.same

They both thought about the same thing

Mar Húsmans nimt beidegearre oan

but Húsmans takes both on

But Husmans hires both

Example (4a) involves a case in which the adverb is used in a nominal position, accompanying the possessor pronoun, a position that is otherwise reserved for Noun Phrases (NPs). Example (4c) involves a case in which the adverb is not accompanied by a coreferring pronoun.

There is a weak tendency to interpret the form beiden both as referring to persons, when compared to the form beide both. The doubtful grammaticality indicates in this example that the judgments below hold for some speakers, but not for others:

De taarten binne beide like lekker

the pies are both equally tasty

The pies are both equally tasty

?De taarten binne beiden like lekker

the pies are both equally tasty

The pies are both equally tasty

?Dy twa filmstjerren binne beide like lekker

those two movie stars are both equally hot

Those two moviestars are both equally hot

Dy twa filmstjerren binne beiden like lekker

those two movie stars are both equally hot

Those two moviestars are both equally hot

The form beiden both is obligatory in some constructions which can only refer to persons:

*Mei ús beide

with our both

With the two of us

Mei ús beiden

with our both

With the two of us

Constructions referring to persons and things exhibit either form, depending on whether persons or things are being referred to:

Ien fan beiden

one of both

One of the two

Ien fan beide

one of both

One of the two

Beide both is inherently a count noun. Alle all can also be used with mass nouns:

*Beide bûter is op

both butter is up

Both butter boxes are empty

Alle bûter is op

all butter is up

All the butter is finished

References

⇑ Back to top

About this article

Author(s): Eric Hoekstra, Joke Weening

Category: Frisian Syntax

Keywords: quantifierbeide 'both'quantifier float structure

Version: 1.0, December 2015

Version history:

version	editor(s)	date	remarks
1.0	Eric Hoekstra, Joke Weening	December 2015

printreport errorcite

Jump to:

introduction
references
related articles